Session is an amazing end-to-end encrypted messaging app. It's a fork of Signal but doesn't require any phone numbers, email addresses, login credentials or anything. Anyone can start the Session app to get a random ID and can communicate with any other Session user with that ID. Simple, anonymous, encrypted - not a bad option.
With my astonishment, one day I got someone on Hubzilla saying this at me:
@Adnan Shameem Yes Session is interesting but there are reasons why this messenger is not listed. The programmer are linked to the alt right movement and getting support from the 8chan / 8kun community... Also you have to know that you only can start your own session server if you invest into the Loki net crypt currency. Every session / Loki net server is also used to transmit, hid and render this currency - there is no way out. So the messenger infrastructure is used to hide communication but also to hide financial transactions... I and a lot of others don´t really like that.
For context, Session is made by Loki Project which is formed by Loki Foundation, "Australia’s first privacy tech not-for-profit". Loki Foundation is the founder of Lokinet as well.
Again on a later comment I got this from the same person...
Also search for "Simon Harman" , Loki Project CEO, and ask yourself if you want to support a projekt led by such a person
Besides of that all: to use a messenger sever infrastructure to hide financial transactions is not very ethical
It means that the person is:
- discouraging me to use Session
- encouraging me to believe as if they are linked to a specific movement
- encouraging me to believe as if the Loki CEO Simon Harman is a supporter of that movement and as if he gains something from the movement
- saying that their entire project was created as if to hide transactions and communication records for movements like this
- saying as if cryptocurrency is a bad thing and as if they're operating a closed system
- saying as if they are unethical
I was surprised to hear that. I recall posting about Session on Mastodon before, but nobody said anything like that. I immediately done some searching and replied with a quote from abc.net.au:
I've searched around and found this page only which had both his name and "alt right" in the content. And it says:
Mr Harman says Loki did not invite 8kun onto its open source network nor help build it.
But some Loki staff may have advised 8kun administrators "to a limited extent", he said, and provided some help to users hoping to access it.
"Generally, if we get requests for technical information about our platform, we'll just give it out. It's all up open source anyway," he said.
...
So, as you can see from my quote, it doesn't add up. It already contradicts with what that person claims and what is published on abc.net.au - even says the opposite.
Let me summarize the claims made by the person and my responses to them. There was a long discussion that went on, for weeks, which included:
Claim 1: Loki project CEO Mr. Harman and devs are linked to alt-right movement (not proven)
This is a serious claim to put against a FOSS project without any real proof to back it up. I've searched around and looked into some links that the person provided, but could not find any conclusive evidence for this claim.
There are no posts, no messages, no screenshots, no quotes indicating that this is true. If there is, please let me know.
Claim 2: Lokinet has helped alt-right movement to cause people harm (not true)
Loki, in limited scope, helped by giving information to an image board named 8kun to be hosted on Lokinet. But as far as I read the reference, it seems the assistance is purely for technical reasons, not to support their cause:
"Generally, if we get requests for technical information about our platform, we'll just give it out. It's all up open source anyway," he [meaning Mr. Harman] said.
Loki CEO or devs are not being directly involved in harmful acts and they are not praising them either. If they are, and you can prove it, I am willing to help you report this to appropriate authorities.
Let me remind you, TOR project's hidden services (.onion sites) have been used for selling illegal drugs. But this is not called "helping". If it was, TOR project contributors/maintainers would be in jail or be in a most wanted list. Technologies like TOR, Session and Lokinet are designed to be censorship resistant in nature. Only the users hosting the content have the power to terminate a "site" like that. So, as far as I know, Loki Foundation can't censor them even if they wanted to.
Claim 3: Loki invited 8kun/8chan (Not proven)
In the quote I presented from abc.net.au at the beginning, it states that they did not invite 8kun.
Mr Harman says Loki did not invite 8kun onto its open source network nor help build it.
If there is any proof that this isn't true, I want to see it.
Claim 4: Lokinet is helping them hide transactions (legitimate concern, but wrong focus)
Lokinet has a cryptocurrency. Lokinet is like any other technology that has the ability to give users anonymity when performing transactions. But Lokinet is not alone. This is true for many other cryptocurrencies like
Monero, Zcash etc.While there is no proof presented to me that it is being used to hide trasactions by the said movement, I can see that it is possible. But it is possible by anyone else too, not just them.
At the end of the day it is up to the user to be responsible. Technology is just a means.
You can't blame a knife maker for a murder done with the knife he made. You can't also say to stop using knives made by that knife maker just because of it. Responsibility comes down to the user for how it is used.
Claim 5: Session cannot be self hosted without investing in cryptocurrency (fair enough point)
Out of all the other claims, I find this claim to be the most appropriate. I've offered the person the option to post about it on Loki's subreddit or community page or GitHub issues. But I haven't seen any interest to do so by him.
Posting about it and discussing with the community is how we make FOSS the way it is supposed to be. Community is at the heart of development. I think the user needs to understand that instead of persuading others to boycott the software by spreading proofless claims.
Claim 6: Session runs on Lokinet (not true, at least for now)
Session will run on Lokinet in the future and this will enable the devs to give us audio calls. But currently at the time of writing this, it
uses a TOR-like onion routing system, not Lokinet.
What is an onion routing network?
...Session uses onion routing to ensure that a server which receives a message never knows the IP address of the sender. ...
When will Lokinet be implemented?
The Session team is hard at work fixing bugs and shoring up core messaging functionality, but once the app is working reliably, we’ll be moving on to Lokinet integration to bring voice calling functionality to Session. ...
Community's view
As much as I've observed reaction of other users nobody accepted the claims, rather rejected them. With no proof, telling people to not use a FOSS project is possibly the worst thing you can do for the community and for that project.
The possible end
The last comment that I posted asking the person for a quote from a
coindesk article that he himself posted was unanswered.
It's been ~6 days. No response. The person is active on other threads and I have not blocked the user.
The person has:
- Not posted on community or subreddit so that other users can participate on the discussion
- Not emailed the Session support for official response
- Not reported the claimed crimes or criminals to authorities
- Not apologised publicly for the wrong, false claims
- Not posted a single quote from a reputable source supporting the false claims
Despite the fact that these have been suggested multiple times to that person.
Conclusion
I've given the person a lot of chance to provide links, references and proof to all the claims, for weeks. But nothing came out to be definitive against Session devs. Rather I would say the claims are a result of exeggeration, caused by misinterpretation of the news articles or bad word of mouth. I found no proof up to the point of writing this post that the unproven claims are true. Until I find some, I think it's fine to use Session.
Go ahead, enjoy freedom!
...If you face any claims like that just ask for proof or ask the community before believing it.
